Difference between revisions of "Talk:Lain Visual Novel Project"

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I think I'm also going to go ahead and take some initiative and clean up these discussion pages - a lot of this can be deleted, and it will always be accessible since this is a wiki. For discussions that reached a consensus, I'll just have that decision spelled out somewhere.[[User:Bytor|Bytor]] 22:26, 18 March 2013 (UTC)
 
I think I'm also going to go ahead and take some initiative and clean up these discussion pages - a lot of this can be deleted, and it will always be accessible since this is a wiki. For discussions that reached a consensus, I'll just have that decision spelled out somewhere.[[User:Bytor|Bytor]] 22:26, 18 March 2013 (UTC)
  
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==starting==
 
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AMG, you are a goddess amongst men. If you are the artist, I have confidence that this could be done well. Were you the person that initially suggested this? [[User:Bytor|Bytor]]
 
  
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:I think 3, 4, and 5 are very doable, and are short enough they shouldn't be a big deal. I think we could perhaps do those to get the system down, and then tackle 2. I presume 4 and 5 will not have any choices in the paths? Personally, I don't have a huge interest in the dating sim as I haven't actually played one before, but if there is interest, I would certainly be willing to help with it. If the guys in Welcome to the NHK can make one, then surely we can, too, right? [[User:Bytor|Bytor]] 14:54, 15 December 2012 (UTC)
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==timezones==
  
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::I'll look into how wiki software can help us with this; I'd like the pages related to this to be semiprotected, so only logged in users can edit, and potentially some pages that can only be seen by approved users. [[User:Bytor|Bytor]]
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ahania is 0
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amysteriousgal is ??
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arabesque is +2
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bytor is -6
  
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:::Indeed I was. Thank you; I don't have as much confidence in my drawing ability as you seem to, but I'll certainly do the best I can. [[User:Amysteriousgal]]
 
  
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::::I don't believe I've seen any of your work fully colored, but your general style and skill level are definitely good. [[User:Bytor|Bytor]]
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== file location ==
  
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:::::I really only work with chunks of flat colours. The shading is usually built into the lineart. Never quite worked out how to do things any other way. I'll see if I can put something together by tomorrow, maybe a title screen illustration. [[User:Amysteriousgal|Amysteriousgal]] 16:07, 15 December 2012 (UTC)
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choices:
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*google drive
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*ftp/svn on mebious.com
  
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:::3, 4 and 5 would probably be linear. 5 might need a menu to let users select different sections. That's pretty easy to implement. 1 and 2 could work with simple branching (which I've used) or with flags and/or points (which I haven't, but doesn't seem hard). They probably won't be too long, either. The dating sim could potentially take up about half the entire VN, if we choose to write it seriously. If it's a comedy, like the day in the life, then it could be extremely short. [[User:Amysteriousgal|Amysteriousgal]] 15:03, 15 December 2012 (UTC)
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I vote for google drive- that seems simple enough if we all have accounts with the beast. [[User:Bytor|Bytor]] 22:32, 18 March 2013 (UTC)
  
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I would like to offer help, if needed. I'm not much of a visual artist nor programmer, but could help out with GUI design or basic Ren'Py code. In addition to that, I could perhaps provide a Japanese translation (I'm the Japanese studying mebby weeaboo) or provide sound FX and other help with audio (I have a decent large diagram microphone and some audio hobbyist background). Or whatever else you might need help with. Let's make this happen! --[[User:アラベスク|アラベスク]] 15:13, 15 December 2012 (UTC)
 
  
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So I'm thinking maybe we should start using irc to communicate a bit for this- i can lurk permanently (or use a bot) to log it and copy the log to mebious.com . My timezone is -6, ahania is 0, where are you AMG and arabesque? perhaps we can find a good time of day/week to meetup occasionally, and then split off to do work on our own time? i really would like to see this actually happen. [[Special:Contributions/208.54.86.236|208.54.86.236]] 17:17, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
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==resolution==
  
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:I'm +2 UTC --[[User:アラベスク|アラベスク]] 18:22, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
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All my Lain screencaps are 480 x 360, but they scaled up surprisingly well. It's standard for VN backgrounds to look blurry, right? Do we want to specify a more Lain-like typeface? I was thinking of Courier New or something like it. 02:13, 16 December 2012 (UTC)[[User:Amysteriousgal|Amysteriousgal]]
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I went and sorted the stories alphabetically. Naturally that doesn't have to be the final order (or presentation) of them though. --[[User:アラベスク|アラベスク]] 00:43, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
 
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== Project management platform? ==
 
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What sort of setup will we need for the software? Should we have subversion repository, or would something simple like google drive be enough? Also, I think it might be best for us to use an Agile-like process for working on this. (can you tell I'm a programmer :(? ) Since this will be several short pieces, we can work on one, and start with a bare structure, and then flesh it out as the pieces are created. [[User:Bytor|Bytor]] 16:15, 15 December 2012 (UTC)
 
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: I've been using Dropbox with success in some other online projects. I'm fine with Google Drive as well though. I would imagine one of us (AMG probably) creates the 1st draft in Ren'Py, archives its contents, and uploads to a cloud we use. Then we can create and discuss new revisions as we go. That's probably something similar to the Agile-like process you described? --[[User:アラベスク|アラベスク]] 16:21, 15 December 2012 (UTC)
 
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:''edit:'' It could even be an FPT folder @mebious.com I guess, in case you have sufficient amount of drive space available and you're willing to make one. Visual novels archive quite neatly, especially if we keep the music files local. --[[User:アラベスク|アラベスク]] 16:55, 15 December 2012 (UTC)
 
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::I can volunteer space. it will probably be on a subdomain (likely m.mebious.com) and a non-80 port, but computer resources are not an isssue. [[User:Bytor|Bytor]] 19:57, 15 December 2012 (UTC)
 
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:::: I may go so far as to make a VM, and then share the username/password with you all, so that you could do ssh and scp to it. [[User:Bytor|Bytor]] 01:05, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
 
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::Re: process, that would work. The basic idea is that you go through cycles, and at the end of each cycle you have a "working" product. So the first step is to get the basic layout down. then add more text fleshing out each scene, more art, more sounds, etc. I'll have to sit down and play with ren'py myself I guess to see if I really know what I'm talking about for this situation.[[User:Bytor|Bytor]] 01:05, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
 
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Not entirely sure what's going on here. May need to retrieve bear hat before proceeding further. ...I tried putting together the start of Lain's life and Chisa's story in Ren'Py just now. All my Lain screencaps are 480 x 360, but they scaled up surprisingly well. It's standard for VN backgrounds to look blurry, right? Do we want to specify a more Lain-like typeface? I was thinking of Courier New or something like it. 02:13, 16 December 2012 (UTC)[[User:Amysteriousgal|Amysteriousgal]]
 
  
 
:640x480 seems like The Classic VN Resolution, although it's rather small by today's standards. I'd suggest 1024x768 (4:3) or 1024×576 (16:9). As for the font, [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nimbus_Mono_L Nimbus Mono L] comes pretty close to Courier New, and is open source. --[[User:アラベスク|アラベスク]] 16:06, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
 
:640x480 seems like The Classic VN Resolution, although it's rather small by today's standards. I'd suggest 1024x768 (4:3) or 1024×576 (16:9). As for the font, [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nimbus_Mono_L Nimbus Mono L] comes pretty close to Courier New, and is open source. --[[User:アラベスク|アラベスク]] 16:06, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
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:::Yeah, I think the font style would fit right in, most likely. --[[User:アラベスク|アラベスク]] 20:02, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
 
:::Yeah, I think the font style would fit right in, most likely. --[[User:アラベスク|アラベスク]] 20:02, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
  
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==font==
  
 
I tried using Cutive Mono [https://www.google.com/webfonts/specimen/Cutive+Mono] just now. It's under an OFL and looks like this:
 
I tried using Cutive Mono [https://www.google.com/webfonts/specimen/Cutive+Mono] just now. It's under an OFL and looks like this:
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:I think that looks great. It's monospace, and has a nice sort of cold feeling (...because its monospace) which suits Lain well.[[User:Bytor|Bytor]] 01:32, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 
:I think that looks great. It's monospace, and has a nice sort of cold feeling (...because its monospace) which suits Lain well.[[User:Bytor|Bytor]] 01:32, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
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== Music ==
 
== Music ==
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By the way, should we want to make this project comply copyrights (not that I really care, but it'd be nice), we could consider using available open music out there. For example, [http://archive.org/details/nineinchnails_ghosts_I_IV Nine Inch Nail's ''"Ghosts"''] has been released under a [https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/us/ Creative Commons licence]. While of course not identical to the SEL soundtrack, I personally think it comes really close to the thematics described at the planning page, and to those of SEL in general. Do give it a listen if you have the time, and let me know what you think. --[[User:アラベスク|アラベスク]] 15:27, 15 December 2012 (UTC)
 
By the way, should we want to make this project comply copyrights (not that I really care, but it'd be nice), we could consider using available open music out there. For example, [http://archive.org/details/nineinchnails_ghosts_I_IV Nine Inch Nail's ''"Ghosts"''] has been released under a [https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/us/ Creative Commons licence]. While of course not identical to the SEL soundtrack, I personally think it comes really close to the thematics described at the planning page, and to those of SEL in general. Do give it a listen if you have the time, and let me know what you think. --[[User:アラベスク|アラベスク]] 15:27, 15 December 2012 (UTC)
  

Revision as of 22:32, 18 March 2013

Since this was mentioned earlier on mebby, I found some motivation (boredom?) to put a bit of thought into the project. I think maybe something keeping us from making progress (when we actually mess with this) is that we're at the point where any work done will mostly just create more work (by planning the structure) or show how immense it is (write a bit- well that's 5 minutes of text down. X hours to go!). I'd like to get some sort of structure to the plan, so we can clearly see where we're going. So, we should plan out what order each of the separate stories are going to be worked on. For having random ideas or something of course add to wherever, but for the most part we should probably work on one at a time, starting with "Come to the Wired", since it is rather short, and there is already a full draft written. Once we get at least a working beta of that, we can move on to adding to other projects. Since there are multiple people and multiple areas to focus on, we can split up from there. Opinions? (assuming anyone ever reads this...) Bytor 22:24, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

I think I'm also going to go ahead and take some initiative and clean up these discussion pages - a lot of this can be deleted, and it will always be accessible since this is a wiki. For discussions that reached a consensus, I'll just have that decision spelled out somewhere.Bytor 22:26, 18 March 2013 (UTC)


timezones

ahania is 0 amysteriousgal is ?? arabesque is +2 bytor is -6


file location

choices:

  • google drive
  • ftp/svn on mebious.com

I vote for google drive- that seems simple enough if we all have accounts with the beast. Bytor 22:32, 18 March 2013 (UTC)


resolution

All my Lain screencaps are 480 x 360, but they scaled up surprisingly well. It's standard for VN backgrounds to look blurry, right? Do we want to specify a more Lain-like typeface? I was thinking of Courier New or something like it. 02:13, 16 December 2012 (UTC)Amysteriousgal

640x480 seems like The Classic VN Resolution, although it's rather small by today's standards. I'd suggest 1024x768 (4:3) or 1024×576 (16:9). As for the font, Nimbus Mono L comes pretty close to Courier New, and is open source. --アラベスク 16:06, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
Ren'Py defaults to 800x600, so that's what I've gotten used to, although it could be changed. Nimbus Mono L sounds good - do you think it's suitable for a Lain VN? It probably fits in with the themes and setting, right? Amysteriousgal 17:29, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
Is there any chance of allowing scaling or stretching with ren'py? At the very least, being able to maximize it. I have a 1920x1200 screen, and anything locked at 800x600 makes me :( Bytor 01:34, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
Yes, Ren'Py supports stretching the window and making it fullscreen (F is the hotkey for fullscreen). --アラベスク 13:38, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
Yeah, I think the font style would fit right in, most likely. --アラベスク 20:02, 20 December 2012 (UTC)


font

I tried using Cutive Mono [1] just now. It's under an OFL and looks like this:

Cap1.png

What do you think?

I think that looks great. It's monospace, and has a nice sort of cold feeling (...because its monospace) which suits Lain well.Bytor 01:32, 21 December 2012 (UTC)


Music

By the way, should we want to make this project comply copyrights (not that I really care, but it'd be nice), we could consider using available open music out there. For example, Nine Inch Nail's "Ghosts" has been released under a Creative Commons licence. While of course not identical to the SEL soundtrack, I personally think it comes really close to the thematics described at the planning page, and to those of SEL in general. Do give it a listen if you have the time, and let me know what you think. --アラベスク 15:27, 15 December 2012 (UTC)

I like it. It's probably easier to use than the Lain soundtrack is, actually. We'll probably run with Creative Commons music in the end. Just make sure not to mix CC-BY-SA with CC-BY-NC-SA, since that would lead to messy licensing things. Amysteriousgal 15:38, 15 December 2012 (UTC)
Yes. One big thing to note though would probably be that using the aforementioned NiN album would require us to release this game with a similar, open licence, including all our own intellectual content put into it. I would personally have no problem with this, but it's worth pointing out. --アラベスク 16:03, 15 December 2012 (UTC)
I have no problem with it, either. Being attributed is nice, nobody is in this for the money, and spreading Creative Commons is a worthwhile cause. Amysteriousgal 16:07, 15 December 2012 (UTC)
I'm cool with it being open, as well. Bytor 16:15, 15 December 2012 (UTC)
Alright then! In case we need more music, CC Search with Jamendo and SoundCloud selected is handy. (I'm thinking especially the dating sim part might need at least a few "less serious tracks", if/when implemented.) --アラベスク 16:50, 15 December 2012 (UTC)


I made a somewhat minimalist BGM loop with this project in mind. Do feel free to assess. --アラベスク 15:15, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

Slightly updated. --アラベスク 15:24, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

Interesting. It might make a good "weird stuff happening" theme, kind of like Ectoplasm? Unsettling, but neither comedic nor terrifying. Amysteriousgal 23:35, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

anonymous user - I can make some dark and ethereal synth music if required. Ghosts is good, but original would be nice too. I was playing around with the beginning of something so I could upload a sample http://www.tunescoop.com/play/313533303636/vnostsample-mp3 I'll tidy up the midi and finish it if you want or if there's a specific sound needed whip something new up. If Arabesku-chan doesn't have it covered, that is.

I'm sure we could use more help with the project! --アラベスク 04:21, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

Another Anon - I'd also recommend trying some glitch-oriented stuff that's OS to fit the theme, maybe some of the more chilled Kamikaze Deadboy stuff, or even something from http://entity.be , http://www.vuzhmusic.com , http://chaserecords.free.fr/ , or http://nksinternational.free.fr/ . Between the lot of them, and with a savvy ear such as mine own or those I would assume are owned by the previous anon and Arab seem to have, there's more than enough to not worry about making OC....unless you want some, in which case the previous Anon can help, and I can make some stuff if you want. Your call, I'm just a newbie here with some ideas...

Locked pages

As a test, I just semi-protected this page. アラベスク, could make sure you can still edit it? Bytor 01:05, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

Seems to work. --アラベスク 09:41, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

Art

So I drew Lain for the first time in ages. How does it look? Does this style work with the lighter stories? The darker ones will probably have duller shades of the same colours, plus possibly some textures. Amysteriousgal 14:57, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

I like it. I suppose even intentionally having different visual styles between the various stories might work. --アラベスク 15:07, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
looks good to me. I would say maybe make her eyes a little larger, theyre a little too close to accurate for an anime style as-is.Bytor 17:34, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
Yeah, that happens a lot. I've adjusted them. If all goes well, the dark versions will be up in a few hours. Amysteriousgal 00:33, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
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